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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 42 post(s) |
M Key
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2014.05.10 02:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
yes, yes, the new rattlesnake is absolutely terrible. How can it survive L4's with the best dps and best tank one can expect in highsec? I mean it HAS UNBONUSED LIGHT DRONES PEOPLE!!!!
Meanwhile I'll be grabbing one to fly the missile DPS and Tank of a Navy Scorp, while enjoying the drone DPS of a T1 drone battleship on the side.
Oh yah, and 3 DDA buffing your light drones is 3 DDA more than most battleships enjoy for their light drones.
Only real question is AB, MJD, or MJD + AB.
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M Key
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2014.05.10 05:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Combined DPS will be quite awesome. Tank will also be quite good, but I think you are forgetting marauders in proclaiming it the best.
Its going to have something like 50% more dps than my Paladin, and the tank should be even better with the same number of slots put into it. AB for some speed tanking makes a huge difference too. Marauders either have to sit there and take it on the chin to get the bastion tanking buffs, or lose it to get the speed/transversal reductions. nevermind the pain of cycling the bastion if stuff gets under your guns. I love guns for blapping frigates from 100km, but the rattlesnake is going to be murder at any range to any size ship. 3x DDA will ensure that even if you are too cheap to haul along precision missiles.
This is all PvE based. Not going to comment on PvP.
As far as the navy scorp vs rattle? Not a contest if you have even trival drone skills. Fit the rattle like a N. Scorp and It will wreck shop. Fit it proper and you got a massive advantage in every aspect of mission running other than outright tank. Mostly cause the Navy Scorp can waste slots like mad and still have a proper fit. So why not tank all the things? Don't get me wrong I love the Navy Scorpion, even before it got buffed... Its just a ship that falls behind the raw DPS other ships have to get through L4s quick. |
M Key
Hedion University Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2014.05.10 14:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:
For how much fitting cost are you aiming at?
Don't forget you can go a bit bling on it if you want. It has two very good anti-gank attributes. Reputation for insane tank. Ship model is shared with other things that have insane tank. So gankers are going to be scanning the navy ravens, marauders, kitemares, etc. Even when they don't have better things to do, they don't bother. |
M Key
Hedion University Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2014.05.10 20:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
[quote=Sarnia Aldurad ramble ramble rant
We lose our alpha strike rang with Cruise Missiles & Torpedos... in exchange we get a bonus to missile KI/TH damage
ramble ramble Regards.
SA [/quote]
you are aware that you can still fire to your max lock range with ease? You are aware that 50% more damage plus 25% more launchers improves DPS, while 50% to velocity only improves dps in the fringe cases where it wouldn't hit at all without it. Which in PvE should be NEVER since things don't go rolling around on MWD faster than an unbonused cruise missile. And you should be able to dictate range at will on rats.
Even for PvP, ask anyone if they would rather have 75% more damage or 50% more range that is already beyond max lock range. Now you might have a point with a Torp Rattlesnake, but get this, the new rattle will do more damage at farther range with better application using cruise missiles than the old Torp rattle did with its range bonus. |
M Key
Hedion University Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2014.05.15 10:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
So, popped on the test server, and even with a garbage fit and skills it does 1000 dps on paper.
5x meta 4 cruise launchers, T1 scourge ammo 2x Rigor and 1x Flare rigs 3x T2 DDA 3x T2 BCU
Gecko for drone
I encourage others with actual proper skills for a missile/drone ship to go test fit it. CPU is very tight, but needs to be checked with a complete T2 fit.
as far as killing frigates and cruisers? Heavy drones with less than perfect skills will take two shots to kill a normal frigate. One shot seems to miss as they are firing right as they pop off MWD. 2nd shot murders the frigate as even low damage hits are more than their EHP. Cruisers are also super quick to kill. again its a matter of they do lots of damage with all the bonuses against low EHP target, so it doesn't even matter if they get good hits. So for PvE, chuck any old heavy drone out the bay doors and watch the explosions. Gecko is even better at this, but seems to pull aggro from all the things. |
M Key
Hedion University Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2014.05.16 03:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:baltec1 wrote: We need to see exactly how you are fitting this ship.
Priestess Lin wrote: The fit is Torpedos with 1 target painter, giving you greater dps against Battleships than cruise missiles. With this fit I have a 30000 hp shield tank with ~187hp per sec shield regen.
With he +50% velocity bonus, javelin torpedoes can hit out to about 50km with implants and no rigs.
I understand you guys don't have lives and all. But it is not cool to make people like your girlfriend or people that come to the door wait 15 minutes or whatever because you have to finish something you are doing in a video game.
Give or take: 29k shields, 184 passive regen rate. It's a passive, "can leave the keyboard at a moment's notice," fit with no rigor rigs (hence the reliance on torps, especially javelins.) The fit is an educated guess, i.e. a crystal implant set would change things. [Rattlesnake, foo] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II [empty low slot] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II [empty med slot] [empty med slot] Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Large Core Defense Field Purger II Large Core Defense Field Purger I Large Core Defense Field Purger I FAIL FIT Definitely need to put in the drone navigation modules to make the salvage drones not suck. Also use 3x Power diagnostic system II.
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M Key
Hedion University Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2014.05.16 04:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:M Key wrote: FAIL FIT Definitely need to put in the drone navigation modules to make the salvage drones not suck. Also use 3x Power diagnostic system II.
I wouldn't call it a fail fit, since Lin's criteria seems to be enough passive regen to walk away from the computer at a moment's notice. The PDS's don't help reach Lin's 187 hp/s claim. And the two open medium slots would be for shield hardeners, so no Drone Navs. Sorry, it was a joke. But really you could sprinkle more nearly useless modules around and who needs hardeners when you can buff your salvage drones. |
M Key
Hedion University Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2014.05.17 03:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
I've done a couple. The tank was a bit weaker than I thought it would be, but the gecko can speed/sig tank insane dps so aggro isn't a factor.
My skills for drones and missiles is meh to bad, but it still pulled 1000dps and had no issues with the standard L4 filler missions. I haven't tried the "edge case" like an angel extravaganza or Dread Pirate Scarlet to give it a real workout. |
M Key
Hedion University Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2014.05.17 07:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
Did Guristas Extravaganza so I have a good baseline since I get this a ton and do it with a paladin. Everything is fine. I wish for better drone UI so it wouldn't try to gank mission triggers the second they spawn. Its just about as fiddly needing to drive the drone in the rattlesnake vs playing with MJD and bastion in the marauder. Tank was quite passable with just a T2 fit, so dunno what mission I was in that was tearing it in 1/2 with ease.
So my final thoughts
Give it +66 cpu to match the extra launcher. Otherwise its very good.
More cargobay might be a nice quality of life idea. |
M Key
Hedion University Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2014.05.21 06:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
XMaxan wrote:Wow my Rattlesnake just became invincible in Lvl 4's and has more than double its old DPS. I will miss the lights being 50% better though . Perhaps we could get 250% to heavy and sentries and 50% to lights? Just a suggestion. (PLEASE!!) Edit: Just noticed the severe reduction in drone bandwidth, assuming sentries stay at 25 mbit/sec I will have significantly lower dps from sentries
you get the same 7.5 effective heavy and sentry drones as now. You roughly double your missile DPS with 7.5 effective launchers vs 4 current. |
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M Key
Hedion University Amarr Empire
6
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Posted - 2014.05.23 22:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
Some people are just trolling, they are complaining about nothing.
So... any word on the Rattlesnake getting +66cpu to pay for the new launcher? |
M Key
Hedion University Amarr Empire
6
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Posted - 2014.05.23 23:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:M Key wrote:Some people are just trolling, they are complaining about nothing.
So... any word on the Rattlesnake getting +66cpu to pay for the new launcher? With Skills V, a Cruise Missile Launcher II requires 57.3 CPU. A DLA II requires 55 CPU. If folks have been previously running with 2x DLA IIs, then how do we justify another 66 CPU? =/ /devil's advocate
Don't forget to rig your ship properly. Stupid CPU eating rigs. |
M Key
Hedion University Amarr Empire
6
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Posted - 2014.05.24 21:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
KaDa en Bauldry wrote:Quote:Rattlesnake need not have anything taken away from it at all. It only needed buffs. It should in fact have 250 bandwidth so it can launch 5 Geckos, and the ability to fit a Bastion module for true EWAR immunity. Oh, and the Mordu's missile velocity bonus, but without the flight time reduction.
you forgot a 500% bonus to salvage drone speed, hp, cap, and resists. |
M Key
Hedion University Amarr Empire
6
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Posted - 2014.05.26 02:43:00 -
[14] - Quote
Chris Winter wrote:So, I was thinking more about what the Rattlesnake is becoming after this patch (split weapon ship, about equal drones/missiles). I'm not really sure this is what the game needs at this point.
We're getting a missile pirate faction in Kronos. If you ignore the fact that 8.75 launchers on the BS is the most you can get (so paper DPS is somewhat capped compared to other systems), missiles are in a decent place for BS progression. Lots of options available, including three different missile/drone platforms (typhoon, typhoon fleet, and rattlesnake).
But if we look at drones as a primary weapon system (rather than half of a split system), the options aren't very good. You've got the Dominix...and that's basically it. There are no BS platforms that give you more than 7.5 effective drones, and besides the Domi there are no BS platforms that give you the optimal/tracking bonus (which equates directly to a damage bonus since it allows you to use shorter range, higher damage drones). Particularly for sentries, the only thing better than a domi is an ishtar, which (as a cruiser) can't fit nearly as strong of a tank against non-kin/therm rats as the domi. Plus, the Ishtar doesn't share any ship command skills with the Domi, so they're basically separate paths and not an upgrade path.
Basically, there's no clear upgrade path for drone pilots past the Dominix, if you don't count getting into split weapons and actually losing capability on your drones. Also not counting carriers...just talking about subcaps.
I'd really like to see the Rattlesnake become the "pirate drone BS" that you can upgrade into after the Dominix. Take away the missile bonus entirely, and give the tracking /optimal bonus from the Domi. Then, increase the effective drones to 10 or so. Either keep the fifth (unbonused) launcher, or leave it off.
Net effect is that you get a powerful, tanky drone platform with a good secondary weapon system (although unbonused). The ship becomes very useful for drone pilots as the pinnacle of BS drone platforms (who lack a marauder). Pilots won't *need* to be good in split weapons in order to effectively use the ship, although it would help. And, the ship won't do any more damage than these proposed changes, it's just that the split would be 75% drone 25% missile instead of the proposed 50/50.
Thoughts?
No. Just No.
Explain WHY there must be something better than a Dominix at drones. Something has to be best, so why not the Dominix? Why MUST the pirate BS be the best at drones?
As a ship that rewards high SP the rattlesnake is pretty perfect right now. If you only have one weapon system it uses trained up properly, you can fly it like you would either a pure drone boat or a pure missile ship, working your way back to a 50/50 hybrid as your other skills are perfected. *THIS* is unique and of value.
Now if you want to talk about split weapons lets go to another thread and discuss the mess that is a PvE dragoon with 3 weapon systems, one of which is not even used by your ship's race. (please for the love of all, don't tell me you put lasers on it)
The only complaint one can have is that the missile bonus is on the gallente battleship skill, but perhaps if you are transitioning from a navy raven or navy scorp you can just suck it up and blow the couple days to get Gal BS 4 before you switch. |
M Key
Hedion University Amarr Empire
6
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Posted - 2014.05.26 04:50:00 -
[15] - Quote
Chris Winter wrote:M Key wrote: No. Just No.
Explain WHY there must be something better than a Dominix at drones. Something has to be best, so why not the Dominix? Why MUST the pirate BS be the best at drones?
Because every other weapon system has some place to go after their T1 BS that isn't "train another weapon system"? Pirate BSes that give more damage or unique bonuses, navy BSes that give more tank/whatever, marauders that give you awesome things. The drone skill changes are clearly trying to position drones as an equal primary weapon system, even making it longer to train drones with fewer benefits than other weapon systems (no T2 ammo, for example). If drones are supposed to be a valid primary weapon system, it makes no sense for a T1 BS to be the best as far as subcaps go.
So? Why shouldn't a Drone user have to train another weapon system? Its clearly in the design of Battleships that they will have the support of drones. So why should an Amarr Laser boat need to use drones to maximize DPS? Why should it be "needed" atleast in theory to carry a set of light drones on a battleship to clean off frigates that get under your guns and/or do not get satisfactory damage application from your large missiles?
You are asking for Drones to not only be unique, but better than any other battleship class weapon system in not needing a second weapon system in theory.
and yes I know in practice a MJD and 100KM range on your guns means frigates go away as fast as your guns cycle. Still doesn't remove the theory that battleships have a dead zone needing to be covered by their own drones. And I'm pretty sure we can all agree we don't want large class short range guns (pulse, blasters, autocannon) to work just fine on close range orbiting frigates. |
M Key
Hedion University Amarr Empire
6
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Posted - 2014.05.26 16:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote: Why does everyone keep acting like missile application is horrendous? Or is this because it can't use bonused medium/lights to kill mission rats? Surely you can just mjd away and blap them with gardes?
The new Rattler is a complete monster when you consider the tank/gank it puts out in the right circumstances. Might be bad at lvl4's though? But lets be honest, lvl 4's already have an entire class of lolships designed for them (Marauders) they don't need the pirate BS's too.
The new heavies are just fine at smashing frigates. The damage from a glancing hit from a gecko or pair of normal heavies is enough to one shot normal frigates and take an elite frigate out in only 2-3 of said "weak" hits. Normal hits are quite possible, and brutal overkill. Non-elite cruisers just melt as they are quite easy for the new heavies to hit and have no EHP. The only thing slowing cruiser killing is the need for the drone to pop out of MWD and start the orbit. Contrast that to mere light drones that will need to grind on a cruiser for a bit, and still has the dropping out of MWD issue as any other non-sentry drone.
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M Key
Hedion University Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2014.05.27 01:06:00 -
[17] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Oh, and you failed to answer my question.
Barring doing it wrong with light or ewar drones, what possible use did any of you have for the previous Rattlesnake that is not possible now? Why when the ship was balanced for the use of Light drones was using them "doing it wrong" Do you like seeing your name in the thread so much, you are happy to put in the time to try and say everyone but you is wrong? I've not seen 1 post from you that actually added content to the thread, just so much drivel about how everyone else is wrong and you are right. Let me give you a little advice, from someone who has been around for over half a century. Don't try to make clever comments if you 1, Don't have all the information 2, Are unable to see another's point of view 3, (the most important) Don't try to make clever comments, if you are not clever.
but your points are complete nonsense. If you want to fit the new rattlesnake like your old rattlesnake, you lose NOTHING. You gain almost nothing too.
But **** fits are **** fits. AFK rattlesnakes are bad, and you should feel bad. Doing more than DOUBLE the dps in an active tank brawling Rattlesnake compared to a AFK sniper rattlesnake will complete missions much much faster. If you can't be bothered to enjoy 10-20min playing your ship, perhaps one should evaluate if missioning is the correct path for you in eve online. I hear a skiff can AFK grind isk like a champ. One can AFK market PvP like a champ too. |
M Key
Hedion University Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2014.05.27 01:44:00 -
[18] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Looking through this, as a drone nut, I can say that I am glad I sold my rattlensake. I would not enjoy playing this ship.
Let me ask the dumb question:
Why give a ship a bonus it can't use? Rather bluntly, they pretty much ended this ship as a drone boat, and made it Raven Junior.
What bonus can't it use? It has a drone bonus. It has drones It has a shield resistance bonus. It has shields It has a missile damage bonus. It has missile launchers
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M Key
Hedion University Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2014.05.28 00:43:00 -
[19] - Quote
R3als Rakkari wrote: The other thing is that only 1 drone link augmentator is not enough to use sentrys on max targeting range so please add one more high slot and a bit CPU.
I am happy on any comments :-)
Fly save
Try flying it with only one link. So far in my testing its not needed more in PvE. You have both tank and gank so just murder them as they enter your bubble of death. With even a little bit of bling you can tank entire rooms of the hardest missions for a good while. The entire room can't say the same for your 1600dps arriving back at them. |
M Key
Hedion University Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2014.05.29 05:17:00 -
[20] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Fabulous Rod wrote:Are you actually going to fit RLML on a Rattlesnake? Oh my..... You are wrong about being impossible to play when jammed. Drones DPS don't stop when you are jammed and the Rattlesnake is supposed to be a drone boat. It needs bonuses on all its drones. Why wouldn't I? Its the single best anti support battleship in the game now. It doesn't suffer when people start targeting its light drones because its getting much better firepower from its missiles. We are currently looking a small gangs of these things for dealing with frig and cruiser roams that come to our space. 5 Rattles with 3-5 logi will rip apart larger 20 man gangs quite easily, especially frigates.
Don't feed the troll.
Any thoughts on using it for maximizing alpha under the new drone assist rules? 7.5 drones for the cost of 2 out of your 50 assist pool. |
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M Key
Hedion University Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2014.06.01 00:51:00 -
[21] - Quote
Quote: Also if you are having trouble getting around the field fit a micro jump drive.
Its pretty lol with a AB. I saw a 30% reduction in damage received from firing up the AB and speed tanking things. Even the frigates lost about that much. Not that you care if a frigate or ten is shooting you. Makes cruise missile rats a whole lot less painful. Still I bet most would rather sentry up and remove DPS on the field the old fashioned face breaking way. |
M Key
Hedion University Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2014.06.05 23:19:00 -
[22] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:PvE playstyles are not inconsequential.
That does not stop TempRonLin from being wrong about everything though. The Rattlesnake is in a far better place even for his tiny niche of a playstyle,
All the more so since from what I've seen a Gecko can tank entire mission rooms on its own. So AFK pilots should rejoice in the ability for a single drone to out tank their **** fit battleship. |
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